Comments on: The Rhetorical Fallacies In This Campaign Are Breathtaking http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/ Political News, Progressive Commentary, Liberal Opinions and Common Sense Conversation... Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:43:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: William A. Stoddart http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-9122 William A. Stoddart Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:22:33 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-9122 I agree, Pamela, the media is the primary culprit! They most always find something, which is either a non-issue OR an untruthful issue and use it for all it's worth. In the 2000 election they falsely labeled Al Gore as being too "plastic" and having no personality. They spun a statement he had made and twisted it into meaning that, "he created the internet. In 2004 they portrayed Senator Kerry, a Vietnam War hero, as being a traitor. Their disgraceful swift-boat campaign served them well. By quoteing things he said, out of context, they were able to falsely label him a "flip-flopper" By injecting the element of fear into the psyche of America, they convinced most that only the GOP could defend them. It was FDR who said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." An adapt motto for Bush "The Decider", should have been, "the only thing I can provide you is fear itself". This time around they don't have to search for hard for dividers. Our two fine candidates, one female and the other black, have provided them most of the political fodder they need. For the good of the country and our party, I hope we don't contribute to setting the same trap. Buzz I agree, Pamela, the media is the primary culprit! They most always find something, which is either a non-issue OR an untruthful issue and use it for all it’s worth.
In the 2000 election they falsely labeled Al Gore as being too “plastic” and having no personality. They spun a statement he had made and twisted it into meaning that, “he created the internet.
In 2004 they portrayed Senator Kerry, a Vietnam War hero, as being a traitor. Their disgraceful swift-boat campaign served them well. By quoteing things he said, out of context, they were able to falsely label him a “flip-flopper” By injecting the element of fear into the psyche of America, they convinced most that only the GOP could defend them. It was FDR who said, “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” An adapt motto for Bush “The Decider”, should have been, “the only thing I can provide you is fear itself”.
This time around they don’t have to search for hard for dividers. Our two fine candidates, one female and the other black, have provided them most of the political fodder they need. For the good of the country and our party, I hope we don’t contribute to setting the same trap. Buzz

]]> By: Pamela Leavey http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-9121 Pamela Leavey Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:25:58 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-9121 Buzz <blockquote>So why don’t both camps give themselves a well-deserved pat on the back and then move on to the real issues?</blockquote> Probably because the media keeps hyping the non-issues. Sadly. Buzz

So why don’t both camps give themselves a well-deserved pat on the back and then move on to the real issues?

Probably because the media keeps hyping the non-issues. Sadly.

]]> By: William A. Stoddart http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-9120 William A. Stoddart Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:59:37 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-9120 This may sound like a cop out, but the very fact that there have been 18 comments, to what should be a non-issue, is the thing that's most disturbing to me. By attempting to portray Hillary opponents as sexist and Obama opponents as racist, those who do so are truly only displaying their own ignorance and phobias. No amount of taking them to task will ever change a bigoted persons mind. By spending so much time and effort into exposing bigotry for what it is, aren't we allowing race and gender to be defining issues of the campaign? Meanwhile the real issues like, the economy, Iraq, medical coverage, crime, and of course McCain are drawn out of the spotlight. I, like Elton John, am gay. In my 64 years I have, at times, been subject to homophobic sterio-typing and verbal abuse. 99% of the time, I simply have just walked away from it. Years have taught me that time spent trying to convince someone that they are homophobic, is time ill spent. No one changes unless they sincerely want to do so. Instead of all this back biteing, why isn't our party celebrating the fact that WE have afforded America the opportunity to elect either it's first woman or first black President? As a gay person, I know how a policy of exclusion feels. Being a realist, I also know that it will be decades, if every, that a person discribed as being "funny", "queer", or "faggot" will ever have the opportunity we are justly affording Senators Clinton and Obama in 2008. So why don't both camps give themselves a well-deserved pat on the back and then move on to the real issues? Buzz This may sound like a cop out, but the very fact that there have been 18 comments, to what should be a non-issue, is the thing that’s most disturbing to me. By attempting to portray Hillary opponents as sexist and Obama opponents as racist, those who do so are truly only displaying their own ignorance and phobias. No amount of taking them to task will ever change a bigoted persons mind. By spending so much time and effort into exposing bigotry for what it is, aren’t we allowing race and gender to be defining issues of the campaign? Meanwhile the real issues like, the economy, Iraq, medical coverage, crime, and of course McCain are drawn out of the spotlight.
I, like Elton John, am gay. In my 64 years I have, at times, been subject to homophobic sterio-typing and verbal abuse. 99% of the time, I simply have just walked away from it. Years have taught me that time spent trying to convince someone that they are homophobic, is time ill spent. No one changes unless they sincerely want to do so. Instead of all this back biteing, why isn’t our party celebrating the fact that WE have afforded America the opportunity to elect either it’s first woman or first black President? As a gay person, I know how a policy of exclusion feels. Being a realist, I also know that it will be decades, if every, that a person discribed as being “funny”, “queer”, or “faggot” will ever have the opportunity we are justly affording Senators Clinton and Obama in 2008. So why don’t both camps give themselves a well-deserved pat on the back and then move on to the real issues? Buzz

]]> By: Pamela Leavey http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-9003 Pamela Leavey Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:19:08 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-9003 Diane It's all getting to everyone I think. :) This too shall pass as they say. Whether we survive with smiles on our faces is another matter. Diane

It’s all getting to everyone I think. :)

This too shall pass as they say. Whether we survive with smiles on our faces is another matter.

]]> By: Pamela Leavey http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-9002 Pamela Leavey Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:17:56 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-9002 Kendall No need to scream (using all caps is perceived as screaming in the blogosphere). Kendall

No need to scream (using all caps is perceived as screaming in the blogosphere).

]]> By: Kendall A. Johnson http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8999 Kendall A. Johnson Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:44:21 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8999 HERE IS A VERY CLEAR INDICATOR OF THE BIAS MEDIA. CLINTON PICKED UP 4 SUPER DELEGATES TODAY AND NOBODY IS REPORTING IT!!!! SHE PICKED UP BOXER IN CALEFORNIA, ONE IN OHIO AND TWO MORE IN P.A.. WHEN OBAMA GETS A SUPERDELEGATE CNN AND MSNBC SPIN IT FOR DAYS!!!!! ON MY AOL DASHBOARD (OWNED BY TIMEWARNER -CNN), THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THESE CLINTON WINS TODAY. INSTEAD A BIG ARTCLE ABOUT "THE THREATS CLINTON FACES GOING FORWARD TO THE CONVENTION". GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! ANOTHER WON WAS "OBAMA CLOSING THE GAP IN PA". ONE POLL OUT OF TEN SAYS THAT HE IS 9 POINTS BEHIND. THE OTHER NINE HAVE HER HOVERING BETWEEN 12 AND 18 POINTS AHEAD, BUT NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THESE POLLS!!!!!!!! a couple of days ago serveyUSA had a poll showing that Clinton was 18 points ahead of Obama in PA and said that she was regaining ground with white men. At the same time, the media showed another poll with a 9 point lead claiming that Obama was gaining and would likely catch her in PA. Their manipulation tactic is to convince people to give up on Clinton by claiming that she is losing and cannot win. They are hoping demoralize her supporters and to convince them to stay home on election day!!!!! THE MEDIA IS EVIL!!!!!!!!!!! HERE IS A VERY CLEAR INDICATOR OF THE BIAS MEDIA. CLINTON PICKED UP 4 SUPER DELEGATES TODAY AND NOBODY IS REPORTING IT!!!! SHE PICKED UP BOXER IN CALEFORNIA, ONE IN OHIO AND TWO MORE IN P.A..

WHEN OBAMA GETS A SUPERDELEGATE CNN AND MSNBC SPIN IT FOR DAYS!!!!!

ON MY AOL DASHBOARD (OWNED BY TIMEWARNER -CNN), THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THESE CLINTON WINS TODAY. INSTEAD A BIG ARTCLE ABOUT “THE THREATS CLINTON FACES GOING FORWARD TO THE CONVENTION”. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! ANOTHER WON WAS “OBAMA CLOSING THE GAP IN PA”. ONE POLL OUT OF TEN SAYS THAT HE IS 9 POINTS BEHIND. THE OTHER NINE HAVE HER HOVERING BETWEEN 12 AND 18 POINTS AHEAD, BUT NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THESE POLLS!!!!!!!!

a couple of days ago serveyUSA had a poll showing that Clinton was 18 points ahead of Obama in PA and said that she was regaining ground with white men. At the same time, the media showed another poll with a 9 point lead claiming that Obama was gaining and would likely catch her in PA. Their manipulation tactic is to convince people to give up on Clinton by claiming that she is losing and cannot win. They are hoping demoralize her supporters and to convince them to stay home on election day!!!!! THE MEDIA IS EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: Diane http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8998 Diane Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:43:22 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8998 My body of social/political writing over the years is very long, and is very much a condemnation of any type of racism or other ethnic bigotry. Judging me without checking out that very large body of work (including condemnation of racism toward Obama)--much of which is readily available-- is, I believe, called "prejudice." My body of social/political writing over the years is very long, and is very much a condemnation of any type of racism or other ethnic bigotry. Judging me without checking out that very large body of work (including condemnation of racism toward Obama)–much of which is readily available– is, I believe, called “prejudice.”

]]> By: Pamela Leavey http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8995 Pamela Leavey Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:25:40 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8995 Kat You clearly miss the point - people denounce the <em><strong>perceived</strong></em> racist remarks more often then they denouce the <em><strong>perceived</strong></em> sexist remarks. On Bill Clinton's S.C. remark, he was not implying anything -- he was citing historical fact on Jackson's S.C. win. It's interesting too that Ferraro was condemned for her comments and then John Kerry and Claire McCaskill said almost the exact same thing days later. Spare us the indignation. Kat

You clearly miss the point – people denounce the perceived racist remarks more often then they denouce the perceived sexist remarks.

On Bill Clinton’s S.C. remark, he was not implying anything — he was citing historical fact on Jackson’s S.C. win.

It’s interesting too that Ferraro was condemned for her comments and then John Kerry and Claire McCaskill said almost the exact same thing days later.

Spare us the indignation.

]]> By: Kat http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8993 Kat Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:02:09 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8993 I'm sorry, IF you heard Obama attacked because of race, you'd be livid? Like if Bill Clinton compared him to Jesse Jackson after his win in SC, implying that the only reason he won was because he is black? Like if Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, in responding to the photo of Obama in Somali garb, stated that it was a photo of Obama in the "dress of his nation", as if Obama was not fully an AMERICAN? Like if Geraldine Ferraro stated that the only reason that Obama is the front runner is because he is black? I'm eagerly awaiting your full throated condemnation, Ms. Dees. I hope I don't die of old age first. I’m sorry, IF you heard Obama attacked because of race, you’d be livid?

Like if Bill Clinton compared him to Jesse Jackson after his win in SC, implying that the only reason he won was because he is black?

Like if Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, in responding to the photo of Obama in Somali garb, stated that it was a photo of Obama in the “dress of his nation”, as if Obama was not fully an AMERICAN?

Like if Geraldine Ferraro stated that the only reason that Obama is the front runner is because he is black?

I’m eagerly awaiting your full throated condemnation, Ms. Dees. I hope I don’t die of old age first.

]]> By: Kendall A. Johnson http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8992 Kendall A. Johnson Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:58:47 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8992 JoeCitizan, Obama has been selling himself as the history making black candidate who can heal the racial divide as well. So I agree with you that both of them are appealing to the history making aspects to their respective campaigns. The point that Elton John was making was about the blatent sexist media and establishment railing against Clinton for no other reason than her gender right in public view free of any chastizement. I did not hear him say that the voters themselves were sexist. And he said nothing that even remotely addressed the voters. The Europeans are watching how sexist our media has been to Clinton and it has absolutely shocked many of them. Its noticeable how she has been trashed and locked out of fair coverage. The blatent sexist things that are said about her on the news broadcasts on a daily basis are real and is overwhelming. You would have to be brain dead not to see it!!!! Anderson Cooper said last week on CNN that racism is more offensive than sexism. He claimed to have a poll to support that crazy notion. They both are offensive and have no place in american politics. But more to the point, ask the young woman who was gang raped how offensive sexism is!!!!!!! Once again the TV has twisted his words and tried to pull male voters away from Clinton's campaign by claiming that one of her surrogets called them sexist!!!!!!!! More hateful media spin twisting the truth about their own misogyny. Its not whether you vote for her or not, but rather what you base your decision on. You are only a sexist if you rule her out because of her gender, rather than for something legitimate. JoeCitizan,

Obama has been selling himself as the history making black candidate who can heal the racial divide as well. So I agree with you that both of them are appealing to the history making aspects to their respective campaigns.

The point that Elton John was making was about the blatent sexist media and establishment railing against Clinton for no other reason than her gender right in public view free of any chastizement. I did not hear him say that the voters themselves were sexist. And he said nothing that even remotely addressed the voters.

The Europeans are watching how sexist our media has been to Clinton and it has absolutely shocked many of them. Its noticeable how she has been trashed and locked out of fair coverage. The blatent sexist things that are said about her on the news broadcasts on a daily basis are real and is overwhelming. You would have to be brain dead not to see it!!!!

Anderson Cooper said last week on CNN that racism is more offensive than sexism. He claimed to have a poll to support that crazy notion. They both are offensive and have no place in american politics. But more to the point, ask the young woman who was gang raped how offensive sexism is!!!!!!!

Once again the TV has twisted his words and tried to pull male voters away from Clinton’s campaign by claiming that one of her surrogets called them sexist!!!!!!!! More hateful media spin twisting the truth about their own misogyny.

Its not whether you vote for her or not, but rather what you base your decision on. You are only a sexist if you rule her out because of her gender, rather than for something legitimate.

]]> By: Kendall A. Johnson http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8991 Kendall A. Johnson Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:31:35 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8991 RIGHT ON DIANNE!!!!!!! MORE EXCUSES AND TURNING THE TABLES ON THOSE OF US WILLING TO CALL THEM OUT ON SEXISM. THANK YOU ETLON JOHN!!!!!!!!! RIGHT ON DIANNE!!!!!!! MORE EXCUSES AND TURNING THE TABLES ON THOSE OF US WILLING TO CALL THEM OUT ON SEXISM. THANK YOU ETLON JOHN!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: Diane http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/comment-page-1/#comment-8985 Diane Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:20:19 +0000 http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/04/09/the-rhetorical-fallacies-in-this-campaign-are-breathtaking/#comment-8985 <blockquote>That is the clear implication when comments like John’s, and similar comments made by Clinton supporters</p></blockquote> <p>No, it is not. There is a big difference between insisting someone vote for you because of your gender, and insisting that someone not totally dismiss you because of your gender. A very big difference.</p>

That is the clear implication when comments like John’s, and similar comments made by Clinton supporters

No, it is not. There is a big difference between insisting someone vote for you because of your gender, and insisting that someone not totally dismiss you because of your gender. A very big difference.

]]>