Why Is It?

…That John Kerry sniped mercilessly at Howard Dean during the 2004 primary, but no one ever accused him of being a traitor to the Democratic Party?

…That when feminists complain of massive sexism and misogyny during the campaign, they are called “whiners,” but when Obama supporters complain of racism, they are called “victims of injustice”?

…That when Obama invokes Reagan, he is a “uniter,” but when Clinton’s years of working with both parties is mentioned, she is called a “Republican”?

…That when Obama’s supporters in states like Texas and Washington shout down and bully caucus attendees into submission, they are called “passionate,” but when Clinton’s supporters cheer for her, they are called “delusional”?

…That when Obama is interviewed on the Fox News, he is called “brave,” but Clinton goes on Fox, she is called “treacherous”?

…That a television pundit recently said “If only Clinton had taken the high road and demanded that the media stop the Jeremiah Wright attacks,” but not one media personality ever said “If only Obama had taken the high road and demanded that the media stop the misogyny”?

…Why is it?…

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29 Responses to Why Is It?

  1. Bo Gardiner says:

    I believe there is a single answer to your excellent and thought-provoking questions, Diane. It’s an answer I keep avoiding, because I didn’t believe it was a major factor these days, plus I don’t WANT to believe it. I keep looking for a different answer. But no matter how hard I try, only one explanation fits the data. The time will come when this answer will be universally acknowledged and produce the national soul-searching that must inevitably come. That answer is misogyny.

  2. coldH2Owi says:

    Let’s see: Sen. Clinton “assumes” Sen. Obama is not a Muslim. Did Sen. Obama ever assume Sen. Clinton wasn’t a member of that religious The Family? I don’t think so. & yes, I’ve secretly hated every woman I’ve ever known.

  3. coldH2Owi

    Back and as cranky as ever, eh?

  4. Phlipper says:

    Snap!!! Those are the exact questions I have been asking.

    I can’t STAND the naive Obama supporters. They are going to ruin it for their candidate, . . . just watch.

    I thought I would vote for Obama if Hillary lost, but there is now way I will now, thanks to Obama supporters.

  5. coldH2Owi says:

    Phlipper: Let’s get this straight – you decided to vote for Sen. Obama now that Sen. Clinton has lost the nomination, but those evil doers in the Sen. Obama campaign sent some sort of secret wave to get to to contradict yourself? & don’t forget, when Hussein X gets elected, all white boys are going to be toast as well. Plus, we’ll have to pay quadzilliions & quadzillions of dollars in reparations for slavery. & we are going to living under a flag with a crescent moon in place of the stars. It will be like that novel by that Canadian woman.

    Not cranky, Pamela, just asking. BTW, did you ever go watch that YouTube of Sen. Clinton’s main surrogate in PA, Gov. Rendell, praising The Nation of Islam? He certainly was well spoken & sincere, wasn’t he? But apparently The United Church of Christ is way farther out their than the Nation of Islam.

  6. Shaun says:

    Has it really come to this? The Democratic Daily is now home to the canard that John Kerry “sniped mercilessly” at Howard Dean? That’s how we’re supposed to remember that campaign now?

    There’s no doubt some Obama supporters have been guilty of behavior unworthy of their candidate. So, too, have some of Senator Clinton’s stalwarts. It happens. It also happens that memories differ, and my memory of the ’04 primary clearly differs from yours.

    I would like a citation for the notion that Clinton supporters were
    shouted down or bullied. I didn’t see a single instance among the 18 caucuses I personally witnessed in the common room where I (after signing in for Hillary) chaired a very amiable group of 30 folks who ended up breaking 2-1 for Obama. Sitting around cafeteria tables with the folks who live across the street and down the block is just a lousy environment for shouters and bullies anyway. I was paying fairly close attention to reports from wherever I could find ’em in the days after the caucus, and while there was grumbling aplenty about overcrowded registration tables and the usual cry that “math is hard,” I just didn’t hear any tales of shouting or bullying,

    Got a cite?

  7. Shaun says:

    My caucus experience is limited to Washington. Texas? Might have been rougher. dunno.

  8. coldH2Owi

    What on Earth are you smoking because you sure are pulling responses out of midair that have little to do with the conversation.

  9. Shaun

    My experience of ’04 is vastly different too — I think you know that. My respect for JK hasn’t waivered much considering we’re on opposite ends of the nomination battle.

  10. JP says:

    Phlipper – so you’re going to let the rude comments of some people you don’t even know to change the way you are going to vote in this election? do you realize how much is at stake in this election? you are willing to throw that away just to prove how pissed you are? makes me question your commitment to the party. i don’t get it.

  11. Diane Elayne Dees says:

    coldH2Owi and Shaun, please introduce yourselves to the idea of context. It is irrelevant how we remember the Kerry/Dean campaigns–that wasn’t at all my point, which should be obvious.

    And Shaun, all the Washington and Texas complaints I heard came from me first-hand from caucus attendees. Some of the incidents were quite ugly. But it isn’t that hard to find such accounts on the Web.

  12. JP

    As time goes on I think a lot of people will feel more willing to vote for the nominee. I can remember similar feelings and statements back in ’04 from supporters of Dean, Edwards, Clark, etc.

  13. Bob says:

    I wish Hillary and Bill would create a new party. Obviously the existing democratic party don’t care about the Clintons anymore now that they have a new money train to rely on. I can’t think of proper name but it would work.

    I bet she can get a solid 30% support from women, latinos, asians, reagan democrats, some repub women.

  14. Bob says:

    Pamela:

    I think you are wrong this time. Me, my family and friends will never vote for obama. Never. Ever.

    My parents are extremely angry and they will cast their votes for McCain. Pelosi is a disgrace and others like Teddyk and Kerry too. Bill and Hillary saved Kennedy’s ass in 94 when he was seriously challenged by Mitt Rommey. Bill campaigned for Kerry after a serious heart attack.

    I am recruiting more and more people to vote against obama. It may not matter in CA but the margin will be much closer this year. You will not hear many admit it loudly but when it is time to cast the faithful vote, many will not vote for obama.

    The GOP is in trouble b/c Bush has so severely damaged their brand so obama could win in Nov if he is the nominee. Sure we will hear terrible things about McCain and stuff but that probably is moot now. I rather support a true patriot like Mr McCain than obama and my parents concur.

    The democratic party is gone. FOREVER.

  15. coldH2Owi says:

    I’m not smoking anything, just real tired. I’ll try to be more clearly cranky in the future. But I really wish you would acknowledge Sen. Clinton’s mistake in pandering to the worst, racist fears of our citizens. It was a grave error & she could rectify it, but probably won’t. I also don’t remember John Kerry going after Dean. I do remember Carville/Begala going after Dean.

  16. coldH2Owi

    I disagree with your assessment of what Hillary Clinton said, she was speaking in terms of the demographics. Granted it could have been worded better, but that’s it.

  17. Shaun says:

    “It is irrelevant how we remember the Kerry/Dean campaigns–that wasn’t at all my point, which should be obvious.”

    It should? You said “John Kerry sniped mercilessly at Howard Dean” and wasn’t punished as a “traitor to the Democratic Party?” If the first premise is the product of a faulty memory – hence false – your central premise – that Hillary is somehow being singled out – fails. In point of fact, the Dean campaign was all over Kerry as “Bush-light” and “Republican-light,” though JK was demonstably the most liberal nominee in a generation.

    If accounts of shouting down and bullying delegates in the Washington precinct caucuses are so easy to find on the net, surely you could provide one simple cite to support your case, because I can’t find ’em and my first-hand view differs wildly.

  18. Bob

    I am absolutely certain that Hillary Clinton will support Obama as nominee and work heart and soul to put him in the White House.

    Senators Kerry and Kennedy and other prominent members of the party have a right to back Obama and although I don’t agree with their choice I respect their choice. Politics is a messy and ugly business. Politicians line up behind the candidates of their choice and sometimes they have to make tough choices as Kerry and Kennedy did, with their connections to the Clintons. It’s part and parcel of politics. The Democratic Party will survive this and live on.

    Hillary has said repeatedly she wants her supporters to follow her lead and support Obama if he is the nominee, I hope you will consider that that is what she wants from her supporters. We can not afford to let John McCain win — can not afford it at all.

  19. JP says:

    perhaps taking a small break to think about the big picture and the real reasons we are all fired up and fighting so hard….we Democrats want to see real, substantiative changes in our country. both Obama and Clinton supporters are passionate about their candidates–and well we should be. they inspire us with their visions and capabilities to change our country.

    i honestly believe whether this primary race ends tomorrow, or in a week, a month, or at the convention, the following day our party will unite, and that day and the subsequent days will be John McCain’s worst. we have captured the country’s attention with this race, and we’ll capture the white house in november.

  20. JP

    Well said — All of it. I could not agree more. Thank you.

  21. john stone says:

    John Kerry did not snipe at Howard Dean. I wish with all my heart that John Kerry was running for President right now!! I would suppurt him 150%!!

  22. Diane says:

    John Kerry did not snipe at Howard Dean.

    He diid, John–repeatedly, and often very sarcastically. And my pointing it out was not a criticism. I’m perfectly fine with members of the same party criticizing each other and sniping at each other (Dean did fight back). My point was simply that when he did it, no one called him a traitor to his party.

  23. Diane

    I worked for the Kerry campaign from August ’03 through the GE, from where I sit, John Kerry took a lot more heat from Howard Dean than he gave back starting with as Shaun ppointed out Dean calling Kerry “Bush-light” and “Republican-light.” Dean made the fact that Kerry (and Edwards) voted for IWR a central issue in his campaign.

    I think Shaun’s initial reaction to your statement about Kerry was because The Dem Daily was founded to be a haven for Kerry supporters after the ’04 election and we were at one time about the only progressive/liberal blog that continued to support Kerry after the election.

    Shaun and John Stone are both longtime Kerry supporters like myself.

  24. JP says:

    man thinking about the 2004 election just pisses me off. things sure could have been different if we had gotten John into office.

  25. JP

    Me too. I was actually just thinking about that last night before I went to bed. Also, all this arguing over who’s the better candidate would not even be an issue because we’d all be working on getting JK re-elected.

  26. john stone says:

    You are right JP. I think everyday about how much better off this country would be with John Kerry as President. I still believe and always will that John Kerry did win. There was massive voter fraud in Ohio and also problems in Florida and New Mexico. If John Kerry was President today, we would be out of Iraq and thats just a start of the good things he would have done!

  27. coldH2Owi says:

    Maybe that’s the difference between us. Pamela, & I really, really am not demeaning you here, I hear those words, “hard working…white people….” & I don’t see a demographic in my mind’s eye. I see actual people & actual ideas & actual strategy. It really isn’t a matter of “inartful speech”, I’m afraid, it’s about desperation & sad pandering. I so wanted John Kerry to win & then Chris Dodd & then John Edwards. As you are clearly aware, it’s disheartening that things happen to our candidates, but they do. But to continue to deny & then impugn the other side after it’s over is not productive. Let’s just make sure that the best of Sen. Clinton’s ideas are made real & the worst don’t tarnish her legacy.

  28. Cold

    Unfortunately demographics have taken a huge role in presidential elections over the past few cycles. Campaign target certain demographics with concise marketing and this has been well documented. Read Applebee’s America — I’ve mentioned it here in the past.

    Again she was stating what exit polls have shown. Sad but true. Obama will need to overcome his poor showing with this demographic and ensure that they coalesce around him. I think Obama’s campaign is fully aware of this regardless of what they say.

    I also think HRC’s legacy will be just fine. She’s had an incredibly strong showing in this contest and set a precedent for women to run for the highest office in America. Of that I am incredibly proud and we all should be, rather than tear her down because we don’t agree with every little thing she says.

  29. coldH2Owi says:

    “Every little thing” ?? – goddamnit she made a racist comment, why can’t you admit it & see it. These are real live living people, not some peg on a pegboard. This is what me hopeless.