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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s West Virginia Problem</title>
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		<title>By: kangeroo</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10457</link>
		<dc:creator>kangeroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 09:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10457</guid>
		<description>it makes sense that obama can&#039;t connect with these voters, because i think he really doesn&#039;t give a crap about them.  i’m convinced that obama’s a 3rd party candidate in the midst of a hostile takeover of the democratic party–and i’m finding commenters out there who are on the same wavelength.

from derridog at noquarter, re: the media:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The question that bothers me is why they want her out so badly. This likely means that the corporations don’t want the Clintons because they know how the government runs and historically have put the brakes on corporate greed. But the other question is: do they want Obama because McCain can knock him out easily or do they want Obama because he’s their guy -they put him up to this because he’s in their pockets and they want to take over the Democratic Party and knock all the progressives out of it and leave us with only easily ignored third parties.

I think the latter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

from chancellor at talkleft:

&lt;blockquote&gt;[A]s I see it, this year, the will of the voters is going to mean less than the power struggle going on within the Beltway Dems--aided and abetted by some in the blogosphere. The Mountain States are seen by these &quot;new coalition&quot; Dems as representing the best opportunity to counter the Southern Strategy of the Repubs.

As best I can tell, there are many in the Dem party who would like to write off the South entirely as an electoral strategy. This would mean being able to throw out the influence of the Carters, the Gores and the Clintons. Of course, they can&#039;t do this without replacement states to make up the votes. What they&#039;re hoping is that they can cobble together enough Libertarians in the Mountain States and the border states, such as Virginia and Missouri, to re-draw the electoral map. Obama is the candidate that they chose to draw these voters into the Dem fold.

The problem is that the big electoral votes are still in states where the voter demographics favor Clinton. IMO, the neo-Libertarians will do anything to stop Clinton in order to execute the first part of their strategy--including taking a loss in the GE, as long as they think they can pick up the congressional races. They&#039;re trying to prove a point here, IMO, whether or not it means winning back the White House. There&#039;s also a problem in that Libertarians are not Democrats, so we are seeing a fight not just for votes but for values. . . .

My guess is that they believe it&#039;s now or never, and that due to the state of the economy, the Iraq war/occupation and Bush&#039;s approval ratings, this is the time for the coup.

BTW, I do believe it is an attempt at an internal coup. IMO, the comments by Brazile were a slip-up in her anger--we weren&#039;t supposed to know that we were being told to go to the back of the bus and stay there, at least not until November. However, now that the plan is out there, you have people like Chris Bowers and Matt Stoller extolling the virtues of the new, neo-Libertarian party, formerly known as the Democrats. Maybe they think we&#039;ll change our minds once they tell us how wonderful everything is going to be under the new order. It&#039;s Animal Farm redux, best I can tell.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

as an FDR/WJC dem, you can bet i&#039;m pissed about this.  if obama gets the nomination, i&#039;m now certain that i&#039;ll be voting for mccain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it makes sense that obama can&#8217;t connect with these voters, because i think he really doesn&#8217;t give a crap about them.  i’m convinced that obama’s a 3rd party candidate in the midst of a hostile takeover of the democratic party–and i’m finding commenters out there who are on the same wavelength.</p>
<p>from derridog at noquarter, re: the media:</p>
<blockquote><p>The question that bothers me is why they want her out so badly. This likely means that the corporations don’t want the Clintons because they know how the government runs and historically have put the brakes on corporate greed. But the other question is: do they want Obama because McCain can knock him out easily or do they want Obama because he’s their guy -they put him up to this because he’s in their pockets and they want to take over the Democratic Party and knock all the progressives out of it and leave us with only easily ignored third parties.</p>
<p>I think the latter.</p></blockquote>
<p>from chancellor at talkleft:</p>
<blockquote><p>[A]s I see it, this year, the will of the voters is going to mean less than the power struggle going on within the Beltway Dems&#8211;aided and abetted by some in the blogosphere. The Mountain States are seen by these &#8220;new coalition&#8221; Dems as representing the best opportunity to counter the Southern Strategy of the Repubs.</p>
<p>As best I can tell, there are many in the Dem party who would like to write off the South entirely as an electoral strategy. This would mean being able to throw out the influence of the Carters, the Gores and the Clintons. Of course, they can&#8217;t do this without replacement states to make up the votes. What they&#8217;re hoping is that they can cobble together enough Libertarians in the Mountain States and the border states, such as Virginia and Missouri, to re-draw the electoral map. Obama is the candidate that they chose to draw these voters into the Dem fold.</p>
<p>The problem is that the big electoral votes are still in states where the voter demographics favor Clinton. IMO, the neo-Libertarians will do anything to stop Clinton in order to execute the first part of their strategy&#8211;including taking a loss in the GE, as long as they think they can pick up the congressional races. They&#8217;re trying to prove a point here, IMO, whether or not it means winning back the White House. There&#8217;s also a problem in that Libertarians are not Democrats, so we are seeing a fight not just for votes but for values. . . .</p>
<p>My guess is that they believe it&#8217;s now or never, and that due to the state of the economy, the Iraq war/occupation and Bush&#8217;s approval ratings, this is the time for the coup.</p>
<p>BTW, I do believe it is an attempt at an internal coup. IMO, the comments by Brazile were a slip-up in her anger&#8211;we weren&#8217;t supposed to know that we were being told to go to the back of the bus and stay there, at least not until November. However, now that the plan is out there, you have people like Chris Bowers and Matt Stoller extolling the virtues of the new, neo-Libertarian party, formerly known as the Democrats. Maybe they think we&#8217;ll change our minds once they tell us how wonderful everything is going to be under the new order. It&#8217;s Animal Farm redux, best I can tell.</p></blockquote>
<p>as an FDR/WJC dem, you can bet i&#8217;m pissed about this.  if obama gets the nomination, i&#8217;m now certain that i&#8217;ll be voting for mccain.</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell Prows</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10435</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell Prows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10435</guid>
		<description>Based on the proposals I&#039;ve heard for dividing up the Michigan and Florida delegations, Sen. Obama still leaves the process with a virtual lock on enough delegates for the nomination, and Sen. Clinton is still looking at a mathematical impossibility. He crosses the finish line with a majority of votes, pledged delegates, and supers, and no plausible scenario prevents that.

To those who want to quit the party over an Obama candidacy, it looks like the train to quit just pulled into the station.

To the rest, it&#039;s time to roll up our sleeves, get to work, and start making plans to celebrate the good old fashioned ass whipping that we&#039;re ready to put on old mister ex-straight talker, and all of his redneck buddies out there on the fringe right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on the proposals I&#8217;ve heard for dividing up the Michigan and Florida delegations, Sen. Obama still leaves the process with a virtual lock on enough delegates for the nomination, and Sen. Clinton is still looking at a mathematical impossibility. He crosses the finish line with a majority of votes, pledged delegates, and supers, and no plausible scenario prevents that.</p>
<p>To those who want to quit the party over an Obama candidacy, it looks like the train to quit just pulled into the station.</p>
<p>To the rest, it&#8217;s time to roll up our sleeves, get to work, and start making plans to celebrate the good old fashioned ass whipping that we&#8217;re ready to put on old mister ex-straight talker, and all of his redneck buddies out there on the fringe right.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Leavey</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10378</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Leavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 04:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10378</guid>
		<description>Gilbert

I have a feeling you will some changes in Obama&#039;s platform when the convention rolls around. That&#039;s part of the process. The delegates will fight for aspects of the platform that are important like health care. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised to his health care plan emerge looking more like Clinton&#039;s and Edwards&#039; -- you got to know both of them will fight for that at the convention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gilbert</p>
<p>I have a feeling you will some changes in Obama&#8217;s platform when the convention rolls around. That&#8217;s part of the process. The delegates will fight for aspects of the platform that are important like health care. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised to his health care plan emerge looking more like Clinton&#8217;s and Edwards&#8217; &#8212; you got to know both of them will fight for that at the convention.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Martinez</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10375</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 03:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10375</guid>
		<description>Again, I think we need to get away from the &quot;white working class&quot; rhetoric. With the exception of African Americans, Obama is not winning &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; working class racial groups: white, Asian American, Hispanic. 

There is a fundamental division within the Party that the Obama has revealed. It is now obvious why Universal Health Care was so quickly thrown off the table and supported whole heartedly by Obama supporters. There is a reason why it is now OK for Democrats to dog-whistle social security. 

No matter who wins this primary, these divisions are going to have to be addressed. It will make the Party better. But hiding behind the Unity Pony and pretending nothing is wrong won&#039;t help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I think we need to get away from the &#8220;white working class&#8221; rhetoric. With the exception of African Americans, Obama is not winning <i>any</i> working class racial groups: white, Asian American, Hispanic. </p>
<p>There is a fundamental division within the Party that the Obama has revealed. It is now obvious why Universal Health Care was so quickly thrown off the table and supported whole heartedly by Obama supporters. There is a reason why it is now OK for Democrats to dog-whistle social security. </p>
<p>No matter who wins this primary, these divisions are going to have to be addressed. It will make the Party better. But hiding behind the Unity Pony and pretending nothing is wrong won&#8217;t help.</p>
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		<title>By: Peace Out For Unity</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10370</link>
		<dc:creator>Peace Out For Unity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 02:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10370</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s problem is, he doesn&#039;t have the experience to run the country ! That&#039;s a direct intelligent compare and contrast reality ! Politically correct,not sure but it&#039;s studied and opinionated with a heart felt drive to believe she can and we will ! We have a gold mine in Hillary Clinton ! Chip away !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s problem is, he doesn&#8217;t have the experience to run the country ! That&#8217;s a direct intelligent compare and contrast reality ! Politically correct,not sure but it&#8217;s studied and opinionated with a heart felt drive to believe she can and we will ! We have a gold mine in Hillary Clinton ! Chip away !</p>
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		<title>By: Peace Out For Unity</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10369</link>
		<dc:creator>Peace Out For Unity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 01:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10369</guid>
		<description>Cole mines found a gold mine ! Go Clinton !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cole mines found a gold mine ! Go Clinton !</p>
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		<title>By: Peace Out For Unity</title>
		<link>http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-10368</link>
		<dc:creator>Peace Out For Unity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 01:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/05/10/obamas-west-virginia-problem/#comment-10368</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s go West Virginia ! Are we all in shock over NC ? Did they compare and contrast reading or listen to the news ? I&#039;m not over it yet ! Do you want a public educational system and polar bears that are living ? Vote Clinton ! Do you want an agenda that&#039;s intelligent and experienced day one for the nation ? She&#039;s it and make no mistake about it ! Hire someone that can get the job done ! God Bless America and West Virginia ! She&#039;s a gold mine for the country ! Go Clinton !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s go West Virginia ! Are we all in shock over NC ? Did they compare and contrast reading or listen to the news ? I&#8217;m not over it yet ! Do you want a public educational system and polar bears that are living ? Vote Clinton ! Do you want an agenda that&#8217;s intelligent and experienced day one for the nation ? She&#8217;s it and make no mistake about it ! Hire someone that can get the job done ! God Bless America and West Virginia ! She&#8217;s a gold mine for the country ! Go Clinton !</p>
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