I just finished watching the video below from MSNBC with Taylor Marsh and Matthew Slutsky (DoubleSpeak). Both Taylor and Matthew agreed that despite the divide between bloggers over the two candidates, Obama and Clinton, bloggers will come together to support the nominee.
Watch it here:
I’ve been saying here for some time that I’ll be supporting the nominee and urging readers to do the same.
It’s time to put aside our personal preferences and work like hell to make sure McCain does not get elected — something else that Marsh & Slutsky agreed upon. And work we must, and so too must the candidates – both Obama and Clinton, as Marsh & Slutsky noted.
Taylor, like myself, is “keeping a hope open for Hillary Clinton to be Obama’s vice presidential nominee.”
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Never.
No Republican ever called me racist. I’ve been a Democrat my entire life, but I will not vote for this corrupt creature from the Daley/Blagojevich machine.
although i am a democrat, i find the clarion call for unity somewhat irritating… clinton supporters such as myself supported hillary for a variety of reasons and opposed obama for many good reasons as well. now that the race is coming to its conclusion am i supposed to set aside whatever reasons i had for not supporting obama (just because)?
the best way for obama to win over clinton supporters is to address our concerns. it’s up to him to figure out how to do that. it is not incumbent upon us to even help him do that. we are now up for grabs (though as democrats i would assume that obama has got first dibbs in winning us over.) i find it insulting that the best (or maybe just first) argument being made is “stop mccain”… i don’t even like mccain much, but he’s not the same piece of crap that GWB is… let’s take the big issue at hand for an example: i hate the war in Iraq as much as most democrats, but obama has been wishy-washy when pressed about what he would actually do to stop the war! he bludgeoned hillary over her vote for AUMF, but he didn’t raise his hand in that early debate when Tim (pumpkin head) Russert asked who would guarantee that we would be out by 2013… and isn’t ending the war in Iraq like obama’s defining issue? so, all i’m saying is that obama has work to do. clinton supporters owe him nothing and his ability to get elected will probably have more to do with how many clinton supporters he can get than his much vaunted appeal to independents. in case anyone has missed it, his support among independents has weakened considerably since mid-february when the country started to get its first unadorned look at him and he proceeded to lose all the big swing states to hillary in somewhat dramatic fashion.
obama won the pre-february 20th primaries by a little bit wider delegate margin than hillary won the march, april, may and june primaries. frankly, the democratic party (superdelegates) is intentionally nominating the weaker candidate. so, good luck with that. if he loses, i’m sure it will be all hillary’s fault…
so, let’s put the unity meme away for a few minutes, okay? the new swing voters are hillary voters. we will be picking the next president. so, i think it’s kind of ironic that obama used to love telling everyone that he could get hillary’s voters but that she couldn’t get his. haven’t heard much of that lately… so, senator obama, you had better get to work convincing us “hillaryites” why you are qualified to be president of the united states. (hint: we didn’t buy the “yes we can thing” the first time, so it’s probably best not to count on that this time… all the kids loved it apparently, but those of us still sitting here on the sidelines are a bit more cynical, maybe because we’ve been around the block a few times before…)
Joseph–good job letting someone else determine how you are going to vote.
There will be no unity. There are more than enough of us Hillary supporters who WILL vote for McCain in November to deprive Obambi of the Presidency. It will not happen. Not in my lifetime! No Way! Hillary of McCain 08.
I disagree as well. If I have learned anything during this primary, it’s about who the so-called Big progressive bloggers and their crowds are. After months of abuse toward Hillary and her supporters (and no, there is no comparison with the pro-Hillary blogs and this place is a good example of it), that’s just not going to happen.
As far as I’m concerned, Obama is on his own. He got his nomination through vote stealing. Even today his campaign was insulting Hillary by stating that she has not been fully vetted to be VP. Well, I hope that, if offered, she will refuse.
The unity shtick was never real, and it is not more so today.
Not going to happen.
I will never vote for Obama because he is totally unqualified for the job of POTUS.
I have never seen a candidate more unprepared – and compared to Hillary Clinton, Obama is simply a joke.
If he is the Dem candidate, I hope he loses. I will do everything I can to see that this happens.
If he wins, it will be a four-year presidency and the Dems will be out of power for another 16 years.
Very sad to see what should be a no-brainer for the Democratic Party to turn out the Repugs turn into a disaster. But then, Howard Dean and Donna Brazile and John Kerry are a terrific trio of losers themselves.
It is not going to happen
She won the popular vote the true democratic way to measure a win. He is not prepared. His campain was aided in a very corrupt way by the MSM and big corporation and worse.
I haven’t heard any one who supported him give any intellegant argument for it that not involve an attack on Hillary.
I just wish the DNC and the super deleg. would come out and tell us why, before the final curtain come down on this party.
I wish to god she doesn’t accept the vp because I will not vote for that ticket. Even her name will not make him look better.
sad sad
I cannot in conscience cast a vote for Obama.
It is clear to me that the media misogyny so prevalent in this campaign will continue to be ignored or portrayed as whining by losers.
I will not vote for a candidate who has been willing to remain silent on this issue and whose campaign and supporters so demonized another Democrat, often parroting the extremist GOP hatred, and trashed the last two-term Democratic administration.
The final straw for me was the RFK distortion. If I needed any other push, it would have been the total contempt shown to Clinton supporters, continually characterizing them as racist hicks, raging crones, underinformed – (stupid) or as manipulating, craven, and empty-souled as the Mythically Evil persona they have assigned to Clinton.
The ethos of the candidate ought to be manifest that candidate’s supporters. Well, I see what has been manifest. I will not support it.
Hillary Clinton has insisted repeatedly that it would be a grave error to vote for McCain or to not vote should Obama win the nomination.
But I have no doubt that she understands the importance and value of each individual voter. It is because I so value my one vote and my responsibility to choose well that I can not vote for Obama.
Such a bunch of sore losers I’ve never met before. & Pamela, you thought I was a bad person? One of your own front pagers doesn’t believe in being a Democrat on a Daily basis.
again–why would you let the attitude and words of bloggers and Obama supporters guide how you vote? can’t you see that you are giving those folks power over your decision? that makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. if you carry that approach out to its logical conclusion, we’d all never be able to vote for any of our party candidates because of the primary races–all it takes is a few sour grapes to piss you off and then apparently it’s ok to write off our party nominee.
don’t like Obama–fine. would have preferred Hillary–i get it. think voting McCain or not voting is some sort of payback–the payback will be on YOU and YOUR family and YOUR friends as they watch their health care become too expensive to afford, watch McCain appoint a justice who will tip Roe v. Wade. this is too serious.
but then you can always look back in a few years and claim some sort of moral victory to yourself with an “i told you so”.
Oh fer chrissakes!!
Joe Cannon — I know you’ve been around the damn blogosphere long enough to know that bloggers say vile, uncalled for things about politicians all the time and then turn around support those same politicians.
5 years I have been in the blogopshere, if you all here threatening to not support Obama, think there was not dissention against Kerry 5 years ago — think again. If you all think there were not threats to not vote for him — think again.
And if you all want John McCain — well good luck to you. When the deicsion is made and Hillary gets behind Obama as the nominee, so will I. All good things come to end and everyone supporting Hillary Clinton making these threats needs to learn a few things about how politics works.
It’s nasty, dirty, ugly — it’s a goddanmed blood sport. In the ned every one comes together every 4 years and rallies around their candidate for the common cause. And most times there’s no serious hard feelings between the politicians running against each other. Why, because they all work together, every day.
maybe those lame superdelegates who nominated obama will have to actually do some work in the congress? mccain can’t nominate another alito or roberts if the dems on the justice committee don’t allow it, right?
i’m not advocating mccain, but all this “but the supreme court!!!” hysteria could be avoided by dems in the congress who actually do what they were elected to do!
oh, and by the way, there were some prominent dems in the senate (obama supporters) who said don’t bother voting for hillary if you want healthcare reform, because it ain’t gonna happen… so, you might as well vote for obama… yes, that’s what they said… so, what do they say now? now that hillary is defeated, are they going to say that healthcare reform is doable?
and yes, this is my party… but i am no longer just a democrat, i’m a “disillusioned democrat”… sad, but true…
so, pamela, you’re saying that the hard feelings this year is just like 2004 when howard dean went down with a scream in the night? i think not…
i know what you’re saying, but this is not 2004… the dynamic is quite different.
J. Diamond
I worked on the Kerry blog from August ’03 through the general election — I know full well what kind of crap Kerry put up with from the blogosphere and thought he dynamics may be different, it is similar. I stand by that.
Pamela, I really do admire you for your persistence and keeping your eye on the prize. I have fallen in line for the last 32 years. I just can’t this year, yet I’m not saying I’ll vote for McCain. The democratic party no longer represents the values that I thought it did. In life, I always march to my own drummer. Being a democrat was the one and only thing I did without a lot of question, so out of character for me really. So I’m going independent, which is rather freeing for me.
Meant to send this to you last night when I got in from DC. The rally was great, the results not so good. I did meet many, many people who too are questioning it all.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rge8jDYuzRQ
I should add that it was primarily the party leaders who have offended me most and gave me the greatest reasons to go independent. Obama himself just sealed it for me.
John P…you sound scared that those of us who will NEVER vote for Obama and will probably vote for McCain might contribute to BO’s loss.
(From your keyboard to God’s years!!)
You miss the fact that many of us actually think BO will be WORSE than McCain. Why? Obama has not experience – only his ego – upon which to base this candidacy. Plain. And. Simple.
He is a political lurker…always in the picture, but never out front, never leading the charge. Even his “famous” speech resulted in not a single attempt by BO to end the war once he got into the Senate. But then, he was so busy on day one running for his next promotion he forgot that little issue, didn’t he?
I remember reading about him running into committee members on their way to a press conference about something they had just accomplished. He said, “What’s up” and they told him and he said, “Can I come along”? They said sure – they wanted people on the podium for pictures and then he had the audacity (whoops!) to take the mic and speak as if he had been personally involved in the accomplishment. Staffers were pissed as hell at what he did.
He lurked in CT in 2006 (never really coming out and supporting Ned Lamont). He lurks on pro-choice (using weasel words and voting present). He lurks on race (demanding a dialog and now saying we should all move on – pun intended!). Condemning the Gas Tax Holiday proposal when he supported other such proposals three times.
Where in the world does he really stand on things? I don’t know. And I’m not willing to take a chance.
If we elect a lurker then Repugs will rule the day anyway because he lurks right as much as he lurks left.
NOT what we must have for this country if we are expected to move forward.
Plus, he has destroyed any improvements we have made in race relations since 1960.
And, this is now my response on Roe v Wade…. (not my words…those of another poster whom I know and respect…and with whom I agree!):
“If my younger sisters lose Roe Wade it will be their own fault for taking the rights they have for granted, because they didn’t fight for them. They are complacent and can take the time to swoon over a sexy empty suit who has already set gender relations back a minimum of 30 years, and we haven’t even gotten to the General Election campaign yet. Serves them right. Not my problem. I know how not to get pregnant.
It’s my job to protect the rights I fought for that matter to me. This is a misogynist’s campaign and if younger women are too busy spawning over Leland Gaunt handing out Needful Things and discussing his vibrating phone when he leans on one of them, then they will have to learn to take the consequences of their own folly along with the consolations. Maybe then they will Get It. I have already done well in my life. Complacency is their enemy, not mine. Let em eat cell phones.”
———————————————————
As Abraham Lincoln said:
“I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.”
He should be ashamed of himself.
The rush to push Hillary Clinton aside, fueled by the Obama campaign’s cries of “racism” against both of the Clintons and fanned by the media, could and well might backfire badly, not just for the party but for all of America. Instead of dancing in the streets in 2009, we Democrats might be reading the new bestseller: “Just Plain Dumb: How Barak Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi Blew the Opportunity of the Century and Crippled the Democratic Party Forever.” The BO campaign has succeeded so far in foisting a squeaky clean image on America but when the dirty secrets get out – and they will – the backlash from lifelong Democrats will be furious – and permanent. The opponent is smarter than we want to give him credit for, and more electable, too. Enjoy the euphoria – it will be brief.
Clinton Open to VP Slot…
I’ve been out for a couple of hours and there’s other big news heating up with the tallies coming in from the last two primaries. However before getting to that news, among the headlines today was this one: “Clinton says she’s o…
Shainzona
“Where in the world does he really stand on things? I don’t know. And I’m not willing to take a chance.”
FYI, clearly you have not been paying attention because Hillary Clinton has said many times there’s not much difference between her platform and Obama’s but there is a vast difference between either of their platforms and McCain’s.
So, since you think Obama’s just a lurker and I’ve never seen you here before, perhaps you might want to go back to lurking.
I’m a 51 year old mother with a 18 year old daughter, FYI and I trust Obama to protect Roe v Wade. And I know damn well that Hillary Clinton does too.
KCowley
Glad you went to DC and enjoyed. The party hasn’t changed all that much in truth. People will start to come together. It’s too important of an election to not. Obama is not much different than HRC on the issues, as I noted above. He really isn’t. Unfortunately in the fight for the nomination a lot of things have been said on both sides that should not have. Everyone needs to think about that. We’ve given the republicans way too much fodder. It’s a done deal now, save for Hillary saying it herself. We need to win in November – I can’t say it enough.
Pamela: Didn’t realize you were an Obamaphile. Now I understand. I have been here often – just not posted much. I will make sure I never comment on one of your posts again.
And, I will NEVER vote for Obama. Take your 18 year old daughter (as I took my 10 year old daughter) and march in DC like we did. Maybe then you will appreciate all that we did for you and her.
She is not an Obamaphile, just remaining a loyal democrat. She doesn’t need to go to a protest to appreciate people exercising their rights- she does it day in and day out and knows only too well the sacrifices involved.
Shainzona
As K Cowley noted I’m a loyal Democrat. Hillary Clinton knows that, her campaign knows that and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but watch in the coming days/weeks as CLinton staffers move into new positions in the Obama camp. Democrats are in this to win.
This is the 2nd presidential election I have blogged – the first as a blogger on JohnKerry.com. I’ve been down this road already, as Taylor Marsh has. We both know the importance of winning this election and putting a Dem in the White House.
It has nothing to do with personal preference of candidates and everything to do with realism.
I have the utmost respect for HRC and I am immensely proud of my support for her here over the last months, even given the fact that I alienated many longtime readers who were fellow Kerry supporters, when I did not follow his lead and back Obama.
And one final FYI, I thought long and hard about stepping back if Hillary didn’t win the nomination and not outwardly supporting Obama or particiapting in his bid to beat McCain. I can not in good conscience do that, no matter how saddened I am at the outcome of the nomination battle.
kcowley
Thanks… and I can’t wait to hear all about your trip to DC…
Pamela: Keep the door open, please, the country needs you now more than ever.
This will make the 40th year of my life that I’ve been to the left of my country and I’m never moving further right. F**k that!
My answer is this! When push comes to shove, whoever is further to the left is the better candidate, and anyone disagreeing is voting with their f**king eyes shut.
(I also know how to state this position in a more intelligent manner, but most of the commenters on this post just don’t deserve it.)
Darrell, any point is more persuasive when it does not involve insulting the previous commenters just because you disagree with them.
Whether one agrees with the positions expressed in this thread, no one has been inappropriate even though emotions are running high right now.
Darrell
I’m not going anywhere… except to take 2 days off to go pick up my daughter and bring here home for the summer.
I really hope that in time everyone will see the neccessity of getting our nominee elected.
And everyone here regardless of disareeing deserves civility… I know you know that.
Frenchdoc said:
“As far as I’m concerned, Obama is on his own. He got his nomination through vote stealing. Even today his campaign was insulting Hillary by stating that she has not been fully vetted to be VP. Well, I hope that, if offered, she will refuse.
“The unity shtick was never real, and it is not more so today.”
Frenchdoc then had the nerve to say:
“Whether one agrees with the positions expressed in this thread, no one has been inappropriate….”
Cold
Everyone’s a little edgy… don’t you know.
Hi All: As you all know, I left the Democratic party on March 25, and I will not be rejoining the party, period. As noted by Joseph Cannon, above, I refuse to rejoin a party in which such abuse took place against Clinton supporters, logical, rational, non-abusive Clinton supporters. The stories are rampant about the kind of hurt inflicted by self-declared supporters of Obama.
I experienced so much hurt at the hands of such Obama supporters, that there is no way I will ever rejoin the party. Period. The party and Obama are in denial if they think this has been an example of a post racist campaign.
It has been all about race. Supporters of Obama have used race to hammer supporters of Clinton since way back.
Tonight we have “esteemed” journalists such as Tom Brokaw saying the following: “It’s also a commentary, ah, it seems to me, both Chris and Keith on the extraordinary generational changes that we are going through in this country. It’s not just that young people were coming into this process this time. They see race in an entirely different way than those who are 45 and older. They are not nearly as affected, ah, when someone walks in to a room who may be a different color. They just don’t see it, and I think that part of the success for Barack Obama this time has been that younger people, especially, are much, much more color blind now than their elders are and that is a great tribute to this country.”
Excuse me. So, that is how you create generational warfare? Yep. That’s the ticket… set one generation against the other by calling the older generation racists.
Yep. That is what I have experienced, even when no one even knows, for sure, whether I am black or white, since I have been posting anonymously. This is not post racism, this is fascism, using accusations of racism to make those who may support anyone else but Obama feel like they are racists. Really?
I suppose with respect to the DNC and Obama, ignorance of how accusations of racism have been used in this campaign to make voters feel guilty about supporting Clinton, is bliss.
I am no longer a Democrat. The candidates will have to convince me on their merits. I refuse to be part of a party that ignored what was going on in this campaign. I refuse to be called a racist because I am over 45 years of age. I refuse to be part of a party that tolerates that kind of language. BTW, since when was Tom Brokaw an expert on generational racism. I guess he is a racist by his own standards, or maybe, because he made that declaration, that absolves him, and makes him clearly a non-racist. You figure it out…
So, my next project will be a kind of devotee to Emily’s List and NOW Pacs, and will be called Men4Women.org. Take care, and best wishes. Mark
Taylor did not mention, as she should have, that Hillary and Obama won verrry close to the same number of votes. The Obamaites need to understand this. They do not seem to understand it. Without us, they will not win. I do not want McSame in the Whitehouse anymore than anyone else. But unless Hillary is Sec of State or guaranteed the next in line to the US Supreme Court, he will not get our vote. I do not want her as VP. VP is nothing. I want her in a position where her ability is strengthened.
Mark, I understand what you’re saying. I’m over sixty and in West Virginia we Hillary supporters were portayed by John Stewart on the Daily Show (and a very close friend of Brokaw) as freightened ignorant ill-informed morans. He picked and chose his examples very well. But that to me is exemplary of the fragmentation that exists in the Democratic Party as we communicate together now.
Brokaw is not a Democrat. He is a multi-millionaire reporter who does his master’s bidding.
Please keep this in mind when evaluating anything that comes from Brokaw’s mouth.
Hi weltec 2: I am NOT relying on Brokaw for my understanding of why I chose to no longer be a Democrat based on the way “power” has been exercised by the DNC and Obama supporters. I am relying on what actually happened in this campaign.
I note that Pamela believes the during the Kerry campaign, there was inter-democrat demonizing. Is that right, Pamela, is that what you are claiming? That the Democrats, themselves, dissed Kerry and created a class of racists (or similar) against whom they used epithets and other devices to hammer them into voting for someone other than Kerry?
Is that what you are claiming? Or, are you talking about the general election and the actions of Republicans and their types? Please clarify….
What actually happened in this campaign, experienced by anyone who was speaking up clearly for Clinton, is they were harassed, called racists, and bullied, endlessly…
Race has never been used as a hammer within the Democratic Party in my adult lifetime, and what Brokaw said was an absolutely profound admission and declaration for all to view of exactly the attitude I have experienced from the self-declared younger generation Obama supporters. Go figure…. Tom Brokaw’s subconscious is in tune with what is clearly the not-so-deep undercurrent of this primary season.
It is a shame. And, I don’t think Pamela understands it. Do you Pamela?
“Race has never been used as a hammer within the Democratic Party in my adult lifetime, and what Brokaw said was an absolutely profound admission and declaration for all to view of exactly the attitude I have experienced from the self-declared younger generation Obama supporters. Go figure…. Tom Brokaw’s subconscious is in tune with what is clearly the not-so-deep undercurrent of this primary season.”
Are you out of your effing mind? I don’t even know where to begin.
Mark
Do I understand Mark?
What I said was this: “5 years I have been in the blogopshere, if you all here threatening to not support Obama, think there was not dissention against Kerry 5 years ago — think again. If you all think there were not threats to not vote for him — think again.”
The circumstances of ’04 were vastly different because we did not have a woman or a black candidate. However there was plenty of passion for the various candidates during the primaries (which were shorter) and plenty of dissention when it was deemed he (Kerry) would be the nominee. That dissention lasted long after the nomination was settled with some folks (and bloggers), and continued by some all the way into the GE.
The statement was a comparison, not meant to belittle what people are feeling this time around but and attempt to give some context to the fact that there are always high passions with supporters and their candidates and disgruntled supporters who feel they may not want to support the nominee.
Race has never been used in a presidential primary season nor really has sexism, to the extent we’ve seen this time around because we never had a black candidate or a woman candidate that garnered so much support.
The media fueled both the racism and the sexism, in my opinion and then the bloggers exasperated both. Am I saddened by this. Absolutely. Am I saddened that Hillary came so close but it is clear now that Obama is the nominee. Absolutely. Will I let my personal feelings get in the way of putting a Democrat in the White House. Absolutely not.
Why? Because I care too much about my country. Why because I want a better future for my daughter. That won’t happen is people let personal feeling cloud the objective and stand in the way of attaining the prize.
And deep down inside Hillary Clinton knows the importance of putting a Dem in the White and that is why she has vowed to support Obama in the GE.
And I am sorry to inform you as the parent of an 18 year old who wetn to inner city L.A. schools, in some Brokaw is right about how the younger generation sees race. They are far more color blind than people who grew up through the challenges of the civil rights movement in the 60′s and 70′s. And they also don’t perceive the battles that women fought against sexism in the same way.
Mark
I also want to add something more to try to put some perspective on all of this.
From Spring ’03 through the ’04 General Election I was an avid supporter, who by luck ended up actually working for Kerry’s campaign as a blogger. I put my heart and soul into getting Kerry elected, I was loyal to Kerry and his campaign, and it hurt like hell when he conceded the election to Bush. I was devastated, not just for a few days or weeks but months. After the election I continued to work with Kerry and his staff and for some time I was the only liberal blogger that gave him fair treatment in the blogosphere.
I cringed at criticism of Kerry over perceived mistakes he made during the campaign, both during and after the campaign. It was not until Kerry himself began to look back and admit the mistakes that were made that I too acknowledged them. And so in that, I can say here now with complete objectivity, that the Clinton campaign made mistakes and those mistakes contributed to Obama secring the nomination.
I have said here many times I would not be supporting HRC if Kerry had run. It was a difficult choice for me as loyal Kerry supporter and trusted Kerry blogger to choose HRC and not Obama, as Kerry did. But I forged my own choice based on my own perceptions and I vowed to myself at the same time that I would not allow myself to be so vested in HRC’s campaign or any campaign in the future as I was with Kerry’s campign.
Most people who work presidential campaigns as staffers come to understand that as much as they take a job with a candidate because they believe in that candidate, it is still a job and the job in the end is to get the nominee in the White House. As candidates drop out and concede, some staffers move on to the nominees campaign because the goal is the ultimate in the mind of campaign staffers who are in a sense political mercenaries. Winning the war, winningthe battle for the White House is the ultimate on any campaign staffer’s resume.
That may sound harsh and cold but it is the reality of those who work in the business. And as some one who worked a presidential campaign I get that.
We will not heal the wounds of the racism and sexism and if we sit back in our dissapointment and refuse to participate in the process because our candidate didn’t win the nomination. We will only heal the wounds if we step into the process and vow to work towards the healing togehter and win the White House.
Hi Pamela: Thank you for your comprehensive responses. I am hoping that you are NOT generalizing about “racism in older people than 45″ as Mr. Brokaw did, just from your personal observations. Do you have some data on racist attitudes by age? It is pejorative at the least, and inaccurate at the best, unless adequately footnoted.
So, since no one is citing any references on the matter to make such a claim, I will start looking to see if it exists.
With respect to “pragmatism,” I don’t have to worry about it. I am NOT a politician and I don’t have to compromise my integrity or forgive people who intentionally attempted to hurt me, demean me, diminish me, and call me names I do not deserve. Won’t happen. Who I vote for in November, I will not disclose, but no money will go into the DNC or its efforts.
I will however, support other women candidates where it seems I can be helpful. Like I said, my next effort will be Men4Women.org and will be supportive of candidates found at Emily’s list and NOW Pac.
For coldh2owi: Thanks for quoting me — I note that I left a word out. It was supposed to read “Race has never been used as such a hammer “… Oh, and, please begin.
Mark
I hope as someone who was invited to be a front page poster here, you are not coming here now accusing me of things out of frustration because clearly you have no basis to construe my comments as you have. I am stating opinions based on experience – nothing more – that should be obvious. I do not appreciate having to justify that because you or anyone here is not pleased with the outcome of the primaries.
You are entitled to your feelings, I believe everyone is, however my life experience has taught me it is better to forgive than to carry anger and hurt with you. Politics is an ugly blood sport, as I said above. It’s not for the weak-kneed or weak stomached. You learn to roll with the punches and move on.
If I were to hold personally some of the crap said about me in the blogosphere as a Kerry supporter and beyond, than I would not still be here.
Likewise, if Hillary Clinton were to hold personally the stuff said about her in this campaign and prior to this campaign, well she sure as hell would not be where she is today either.
And here we go…all these bloggers that promoted Obama hate sites such as this one and the many others will reap what they sow. Their hate against Senator Obama has and will serve to undercut the Democratic Party and promote John McCain. Congratulations. You should be proud. I’m sure John Kerry thanks you as well. coldH2Owi I give you a lot of credit for responding here. A lot of credit.
Jemma
Obama hate sites such as this one??? Excuse me, but maybe you didn’t read the post where I said:
The only credit I can give you you Jemma is showing up here spouting falsities. You are so off the mark it is not even funny.
I absolutely agree it is not even funny. I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I chose to support Obama this time and have never been prouder to do so. I see a lot of similar themes in Senator Obama as I saw in Governor Clinton. There is and was an insurgent quality to their campaigns that woke up the party and their political gifts are more similar than many are to admit. That said, many have dedicated sites to hateful posts against Senator Obama whereas Governor Clinton didn’t have to fear the internet. It’s a new era and that can be both good and bad. Would Governor Bill Clinton have been elected if the internet had existed sixteen years ago? I doubt it. The scandals would have taken a life of their own.
Now, I posted a handful of times here and never received anything but attacks. And Pamela, your own posters here all collectively agree, save for a few, that they will vote for McCain. The same with Taylor Marsh who you reference above. It is a sad time for the Democratic Party because of sites that basically dedicated six months to promoting the same attacks that would have destroyed Bill Clinton years ago. I am painfully proud to vote for Senator Obama but I would have voted for Senator Clinton had she been the nominee. Most of your posters who have fed on these attacks since Dec/Jan will no longer vote Dem and they are declaring as much right here and now.
Hi Pamela:
Again, thank you for your comprehensive reply. I understand you are speaking out of personal observations and experience.
Yep, politics, as done by the current lot of power brokers, is an ugly proceeding. I don’t know if I can go as far as to call it a sport. I understand your use of the word, but I do not take the tactics and the current process lightly, as I am sure you also do not take it lightly.
However, where we differ is on what the Democrats have to offer this time around. Unfortunately, the way this primary has been “managed” has clearly shown me that our Democrat leaders (what a word….) have not led. Had they led, it is my opinion that they would have asked Obama to wait it out this time around and we would be looking at a 16-year strategy with a lot of cost-effectiveness built in.
I won’t go down this road too far, but, IMHO, the Democratic leadership has a track record of achievement that is dismal.
I have huge doubts about the party and I see it as way too established, and, in many regards, only different as to look, but not much different as to process from our other major party.
So, I am in political exile at this point, looking for and thinking about where I feel I should put my efforts. As I said, I plan on putting my efforts into supporting women candidates. That will be my focus.
I thank you for letting me write for the Democratic Daily, but I don’t feel there is much I can add to the conversation here anymore. Take care, and best wishes. Mark
Jemma
Good gracious are you that clueless? Here’s some facts:
1) There are more blogs supporting Obama than Clinton in the liberal/progressive blogosphere.
2) There has been more vile and contemptuous things said about Hillary Clinton, and the Clinton’s in the blogosphere and the media there has been about Obama.
3) Obama is the darling of the media and the blogosphere, Hillary is reviled by most.
I don’t think you are that clueless, honestly, I think however you would like readers here to think we’re the culprits. In my opinion there’s been a lot of wrongs said on both sides.
And no, Jemma, readers (posters) here do not collectively agree “that they will vote for McCain” — our readers and commenters collectively agree to vote for the nominee.
Say bye, bye now Jemma, because I have worked damn hard to keep the focus on this blog to be civil and while supporting Hillary Clinton’s campaign, I have I repeat again, urged readers for a long time to support the nominee.
My point was that Governor Clinton would likely not have been elected president in this age of the internet had there been sites dedicated to highlighting all the scandals he was associated with during the primary such as Gennifer Flowers.
That is what I said.
Since you don’t want me to post here, I won’t. It’s your site and I wish you well as I see post after post here of people saying they will vote for McCain.
Mark
Politics is a blood sport is a phrase that has been around for a very long time and politicians themselves use it.
And yes we do differ. There is nothing written in the history of American politics that says anyone who wants to can not run for president.
Likewise there is no reason why Democratic leaders can not choose to the support the candidate of their choice and why they should tell any candidate that they have to “wait it out this time around.”
For all intents and purposes we actually won the White House in ’00 and ’04, as many believe. What is dismal is the power lock that Republicans have had on Congress for years now. If we don;t get a Dem in the White House in ’09, they will continue to run rough shot on this country.
I’m sorry to say that i am just a little awestruck that some people don’t get that. Finally, FYI, the “current lot of power brokers” as you call them, in my opinion have a lot for this country and I am proud to call myself a Democrat. I am proud that I worked for one of those power brokers last time around and I am proud to be originally from the state two of those power brokers represent — Massachusetts.
The bottom line Mark is that in every election there are people who don’t see the outcome they want. Sad but true – it’s a lot like life itself.
You’ve found your calling in supporting women candidates and I respect that. We need more women candidates. But first and foremost I say again we need a Democrat in the White House and I am sorry you miss that point which is urgent.
Jemma
There are also comments after comments here that say they will support the nominee. And FYI, the core group of longtime readers here who comment on regular basis all are supporting the nominee — so please don’t base your opinion of this blog on random commenters.
Oh and incase you missed it — no need for you to further bash the Clinton’s. Yes, Obama has the nomination.
Okay, one final comment – I did NOT bash the Clintons, I said I voted for Bill twice and the traits I see in Obama remind me of Bill. I consider that a huge compliment on both sides.
If you’re referring to Gennifer Flowers, that was not a bash at all, that seems like a million years ago and no cares and I didn’t care then either, obviously. My point again, was how that would have played out in this era.
Many people that support Obama do not hate the Clintons, they were just appreciative of what they saw in Obama. If you have to choose between two things and you choose one, it does not mean you hate the other, you just chose the one.
I don’t know who I’m kidding here, this is not going to be a positive Obama site, too many hard feelings on both sides. It’s sad, but it’s reality. Again, I wish you well.
Jemma
There’s no hard feelings on my part regarding Obama – FYI. As always you come here and make assumptions and are wrong. I chose to support Clinton because I felt she was the better candidate. However I have long said that both were great candidates and we’re lucky to have 2 great candidates.
Mark Said: on June 4th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“…shown me that our Democrat leaders….”
Just a slip of the keyboard, Mark, or are you a ReThug in disguise? Interesting. Or, even more interesting, have you fallen in with the Bu$hCo boys?